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Talk:Music in Pikmin 2: Difference between revisions
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==Music Files== | |||
Phew... Okay, so I've been messing about with Pikmin 2's music files in hopes of understanding them a bit better. DebugYoshi and some other people have been trying to decode the .bms file format, but this time, I just tried snooping around the other files and reaching conclusions. This'll just serve as a bag of notes and... experiment results, I guess? | Phew... Okay, so I've been messing about with Pikmin 2's music files in hopes of understanding them a bit better. DebugYoshi and some other people have been trying to decode the .bms file format, but this time, I just tried snooping around the other files and reaching conclusions. This'll just serve as a bag of notes and... experiment results, I guess? | ||
#<code>/AudioRes/BgmList.txt</code> seems to be unused because it is quite incomplete. I'll try tampering with it some time later to check if the game uses it. | #<code>/AudioRes/BgmList.txt</code> seems to be unused because it is quite incomplete. I'll try tampering with it some time later to check if the game uses it. | ||
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:I haven't had much time to look into this mess in detail, but I'll give my two cents. First, thank ''you'' Scruffy for going over yet another ridiculous ''Pikmin 2'' task. If that game weren't so convoluted in its details, we wouldn't have to be frying our heads over this... Second, could it just be a question of the random parts of the song being more prominent on one place and less on another? Maybe they're equally distributed, but the RNG is just messing with us? Finally, I wouldn't trust the game files on this one. I tried to read through the song listings a few times, and I always found something that contradicted what happens in-game. Nothing out of the ordinary for ''Pikmin 2'', sure, but until we can figure out what in the world the files are actually saying, we better not blindly follow them. — '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 04:01, 1 September 2015 (EDT) | :I haven't had much time to look into this mess in detail, but I'll give my two cents. First, thank ''you'' Scruffy for going over yet another ridiculous ''Pikmin 2'' task. If that game weren't so convoluted in its details, we wouldn't have to be frying our heads over this... Second, could it just be a question of the random parts of the song being more prominent on one place and less on another? Maybe they're equally distributed, but the RNG is just messing with us? Finally, I wouldn't trust the game files on this one. I tried to read through the song listings a few times, and I always found something that contradicted what happens in-game. Nothing out of the ordinary for ''Pikmin 2'', sure, but until we can figure out what in the world the files are actually saying, we better not blindly follow them. — '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 04:01, 1 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
::I've edited the BgmList files before and my understanding of them is that they do affect the music that plays in caves, but certain external factors can bypass it; i.e. the rest floor in dream den is supposed to play the hole of heroes music but a parameter in the cave file for that floor makes it play the rest music instead; this same parameter is used to keep music from playing (for boss floors). for the most part however, they can be edited just fine and will work in game; not sure why it's not working for espyo | |||
*BgmList_Tutorial/Forest/Yakushima/Last - these contain the filenames of the songs that play on each sublevel of each cave | |||
*BgmList_BgmTest - although it has the same format as the other BgmList files, this is more likely a reference page for all the .cnd files found in Conductor.arc - this is arranged into Soil (15 entries), Metal (15 entries), Conc (6 entries), Tile (1 entry), Glass (2 entries), Tsumiki (1 entry) and New (11 entries); that's a little over fifty .cnd files; perhaps unused variations of songs exist, or maybe they're just duplicates... at the bottom of this file is a bunch of developer instructions | |||
::my theory is that the .cnd files draw information from the .bms (sequenced) files in Seq.arc, so all the "soil" songs are derived from cavesoil.bms, "metal" songs from cavemetal.bms, and so on. on the other hand, however, the "new" songs seem to each have their own unique .bms files. --[[User:Neini|Neini]] - [[User talk:Neini|Talk!]] - [[Special:Contributions/Neini|Contributions!]] 16:12, 1 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
:findings --[[User:Neini|Neini]] - [[User talk:Neini|Talk!]] - [[Special:Contributions/Neini|Contributions!]] 18:43, 1 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
#<code>caveconc_05_1.cnd</code> - nearly identical to ''Electricity'', but with an additional instrument line enabled; a pad similar to that in the Wistful Wild's spiderwort mix | |||
#<code>cavemetal_05_0.cnd</code> - the variation of ''Metal 2'' used in Secret Testing Range is actually the normal version; the one used everywhere else is <code>cavemetal_05_4.cnd</code>; most of the other variations have different guitar samples and/or different note patterns. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQe8fnvmNc example] | |||
#<code>caveglass_10_0.cnd</code> - identical to ''Yard'' | |||
#<code>caveboss.cnd and iron.cnd</code> - crash the game | |||
::Okay so I just put in most of the internal names for the cave themes (the ones that are consistent between the game files and the game itself), and I also addressed the different versions of ''Metal 2'' and ''Metal 3''. ''Metal 2'' in the Secret Testing Range does in fact use a slightly different melodic instrument, and thus is worth mentioning. The special ''Metal 3'' (internal name <code>cavemetal_10_4.cnd</code>) in sublevel 5 of the Snagret Hole is identical to the normal ''Metal 3'' (<code>cavemetal_10_0.cnd</code>); I've mentioned that difference for now in the article but we can take it down if that's not necessary. I just feel that any audibly different music that shows up in the final, unmodified game should be at least mentioned here, and things like <code>caveboss.cnd</code> and <code>iron.cnd</code> could be mentioned in unused content. That being said, I'm thinking ''Toybox 2'' and ''Toybox 3'' could be combined since they're so similar; ''Toybox 3'' could simply be called a different version of ''Toybox 2'', since only one instrument is altered and the internal names are so close (<code>new_08_0.cnd</code> and <code>new_08_1.cnd</code>). What do you all think? [[User:Scruffy|Scruffy]] ([[User talk:Scruffy|talk]]) 22:38, 1 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::I think they should. If you think about classification, them having the same prefix and first number suggests that they're supposed to be variants. Also, sorry for the attitude PikFan, though we somehow both turned out being right. --[[User:En Passant|<font color="666666">En</font>]] [[User talk:En Passant|<font color="666666">Passant</font>]] 23:01, 1 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::Sounds good to me. Documenting every song variation would make sense. No point going this far just to half-ass it. Neini, I didn't really try editing the files (I can't be bothered to go through all the tools every single time, and the more convenient "folder as ISO" functionality that Dolphin has is broken for me), I just saw some inconsistencies, like the one you mentioned about the rest sublevel in Dream Den having a song, but it being ignored, so I just assumed everything was wrong. Boy, what a mess this whole thing. Good luck fixing the info Scruffy... you're going to need it. — '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 04:02, 2 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::I also agree with the documentation – better to have the variants mentioned under the main song instead of being given a section for themselves. As for ''Metal 3'', I could SWEAR that it sounds a little different in the Snagret Hole than other locations. If only I had something to record with... Well, it's interesting to know that there's a different file used in the Snagret Hole. {{User:PikFan23/sig}} 01:00, 3 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
==Better name?== | |||
There is a cave song that is labelled "Electricity" on this page, but wouldn't "Concrete 3" be a better name? In the main game, all the sublevels that use this theme have concrete cave units, but not all of them have electric elements. | |||
It is also worth noting that part of the internal name for the track is "caveconc" with "conc" likely being short for concrete. Yes, not all of the challenge mode sublevels that use this song are concrete themed, other songs such as "concrete 2" and "toybox 1" don't match certain themes either. {{unsigned|2.216.12.102}} | |||